Look, even two are more than enough, especially taking into an account that in the first I’m in an unchartered territory and, to please you, had to read more about the tanks than I could imagine. 😂
The “Magnificent Age” - Catherine II TL
- Thread starter alexmilman
- Start date
13. The Big Mistake
13. The Big Mistake
Immediately after Stanislaw’s election, Catherine wrote to Panin: “I congratulate you on the king we made. This case most multiplies my power of attorney to you, I see how unmistakable all the measures you took were.” The “achievement” was indeed great because not everybody manages to make to big blunders by a single action. The first, blunder was that for a while Catherine was considering as her greatest asset in the foreign affairs [1] and the second was Poniatowski’s election, which she wanted so much. The only excuse on both accounts was her total inexperience in the foreign affairs. Well, and an urge to look good in the eyes of the “enlightened society”: the greedy French “philosophers” and, in general, a crowd of the fashionable salons in Paris.
At this point one of the main figures in that crowd was Madame [3] Marie Thérèse Rodet Geoffrin whom King Stanislaw August was addressing as his “maman” and with whom Catherine was in the letters exchange for no practical reason. The election generated exchange of a gushing correspondence.
Poniatowski to Mme. Geoffrin:
“The calm and quiet in this huge gathering was so great that all the noble ladies of the kingdom were present on the field of election without the slightest inconvenience, and I had the pleasure of being proclaimed both by all the men and all the women of my people who were present at the election.”
Mme. Geoffrin to Poniatowski:
“The future passes before my eyes, as in epic poems, I see Poland reborn from its ashes, I see it in radiant brilliance, like the new Jerusalem! Oh my dear son, my adored king! With what delight I will see you as a subject of surprise for the whole of Europe!”
Catherine to Mme. Geoffrin (the text is really amazing in her pretending to be a complete idiot):
“I congratulate you on the rise of your son; I do not know how he became king, but, of course, it was the will of providence, and most of all it is necessary to congratulate his kingdom on it; the Poles did not have a person who would make them happier in a human way; they say that your son behaves perfectly, and I am very happy about it; to guide him on the true path in case of need, I give your motherly tenderness.”
Well, putting aside pretense of a complete ignorance, in this occasion Catherine did prove to be an idiot because immediately after his election King Stanislaw August started separating his interests from those of Catherine looking for a friendship of the court most hostile to Russia, the French court. In the same letter to Geoffrin in which he described his election he wrote: “I really need your advice on the case I wish for more and, of course, more than you think: this is the friendship of the French king. If only in France they want to be on good terms with me, I promise you that I will gladly meet and make half the way.”
In the domestic policies it was even worse because his ideas of the reforms were in a direct contradiction with the Russian interests and the main Russian interest was producing a national hysteria in the PLC. Small surprise that soon enough Catherine started having serious doubts about the wisdom of her … oops …. “providence” will and began changing her course accordingly [4] and the new king started complaining to his “maman” about Catherine having brain but no heart.
Of course, the “heart” issue was quite tangible. To fulfill the pre-election promises Russia (through Repnin) was paying in «червонцы»[5]:
The first trial balloon was proposal of a new Russian-Polish treaty by which Russia would guarantee the present state of the Republic. With a good reason the Poles objected that under the right of the guarantee Russia will interfere in all their domestic affairs.
On a bright side, the sejm confirmed treaty of 1868 regarding commission to start negotiations regarding the border. Of course, in the PLC this did not mean any immediate action but now the Russian side had a legitimate reason to push the subject.
However, the most pressing issue was dissidents question. Due to the numerous complaints from Belorussian clergy about oppression by the Catholics, the Synod presented Catherine a petition in which she was asked to protect interests of the Orthodox Church on the PLC territories. Catherine sent to Repnin instruction to try to deal with the problem and request restoration of the Orthodox Church properties and guarantees of a personal security of its clergy. Another important issue was definition of the precise borders between two states.
Repnin, who understood situation on a ground honestly answered: “I consider it impossible to bring them (dissidents) to full equality with Catholics without violence.” Panin answered with a long-winded meaningless message remarkable both by the convoluted page-long sentences and the idiotic advices to talk with King and magnates about the great services Catherine already done to the Republic, a honor of the Republic, equality of its citizens, etc. Only at the very end and in a very convoluted way mentioned the Russian troops still present present on the PLC territory but without saying anything about their active deployment.
All these issues Stanislaw August and “Familia” considered as rather unwelcome distraction from their reforms program and main of these reforms was abolition of liberum veto and its replacement by a majority vote. But for this agreement of the foreign courts, and first of all Russian, was required and Stanislav-August decided to assure Catherine that the transformation is necessary for the success of the dissident case “…To succeed in this matter, as everywhere else, it takes more order at the Sejm, and this cannot be achieved without correcting our Sejmiks. Your Majesty's own interest is involved here.” But this did not work out and Stanislaw got an answer that time of the reforms did not come, yet, and he had to backpedal. He honestly tried to bring up the dissident issue and response was “fantastic outcry”: “The bitterness in the Senate went to the point that they wanted to sacrifice the primate himself, as he dared to make an easy mention of this case.” Repnin also reported: “I have little hope and the enthusiasm is so great that neither reasons nor fear are making any impact. ”
The Prussian and Austrian courts also were not the idle watchers. Russia and Prussia finally started a treaty that was, formally, about the mutual defense but also contained the “secret” articles about using all measures necessary to prevent any constitutional reforms in the PLC. “Secret” are in quotes because contents of these articles had been disclosed to Britain and Austria. Anyway, in Vienna the main concern was not the Russian-Prussian Treaty but a fact that so far Russia was, contrary to the article of that treaty was seemingly taking easy the reforming activities of Warsaw. The same concern was expressed by Prussia: truly, the Republic was surrounded by the sincere friends. 😉
Frederick to Catherine:
“Many of the Polish nobles want to destroy the liberum veto and replace it with a majority of votes. This intention is very important for all of Poland's neighbors. I agree that we have nothing to worry about under King Stanislav, but after him? If Your Majesty agrees to this change, you can repent and Poland can become a state dangerous to its neighbor.”
Panin kept blabbing generalities along the lines that it would be cruel not to let the Poles to get out of their barbaric state but Frederick’s letter made a deep impression upon Catherine and she rejected Panin’s request to support PLC reforms. As was reported by the Prussian ambassador, Solms, “Panin frowned, but hid his annoyance: he wanted to gain fame as a restorer of Poland.”
Actually, the court of Vienna, due to a much greater experience of its diplomats, had a better grasp on the situation and, as soon as it became clear that only a Piast would be permitted for the election, advocated candidacy of the Hetman Branicki as a less troublesome figure than Poniatowski and supporting him “Familia”. When Branicki and Radziwill were forced to flee Poland, the court of Vienna tried to advocate in their favor.
In the case of Branicki, there was no need for any advocacy: he and Stanislaw were brothers-in-law and, as Stanislaw put it, “Branicki was a rich man and knew how to use his wealth in such a way as to be a real Polish lord, whose house at that time was a brilliant model of splendor and taste". Soon enough he returned to his palace in Byalostok where he was regularly visited by the King Stanislaw-August who during the visits stayed in the special royal chambers.
Radziwill, OTOH, had to spend 2 years abroad before he was allowed to return to his Nesvizh castle/palace.
In a meantime, to protect the warehouses left from the 7YW, Russia maintained on the PLC territory nine infantry, two carabinier regiments, a hussar squadron, one grenadier, two cuirassier regiments, and 200 Don Cossacks. To all noises coming from the PLC and outside “concerned parties” a standard answer was that Russian troops are not entering the Polish territory, they are remaining in it. In an absence of any realistic counter-arguments, this one had been accepted by everybody.
________
[1] In OTL he proved to be a really great ass.
[2] Definition: “The French Salon was a gathering of selected people to learn from an expert about a subject (historian, philosopher, composer), discuss ideas and events of the time, and connect with people in society.” Something like the Wild West saloon but without fistfights and with less competent “experts”: to discuss the horses and cows you need a solid knowledge of a subject but for discussing “philosophy” (IMO, a fundamental difference between German and French philosophies is that while German is talking about everything in a way, which impossible to understand, the French is using easy to understand language talking about nothing) you just need a freely wagging tongue. I’d abstain from the comments on what one needs to discuss a history (we are all in the same boat). 😂😂
[3] In this case, indication of a marital status, not a profession.
[4] In OTL she did not until her nose was pushed into a pile of a manure which she helped to produce.
[5] gold coin worth of 2.2 - 2.3 rubles.
[6] In OTL Catherine, who was complaining about an empty treasury, sent him 100,000 червонцы as a gift.
“Ah, I know well what I should do, but it's terrible! Patience, caution, courage! And one more thing: patience and caution! Here's my motto.”
King Stanislaw August to Mme Geoffrin soon after election
“How! These are our friends, our allies and they will prevent us from getting out of our stagnation!”
King Stanislaw August to Pepnin, slightly later
“Let all your dreams come true.”
Chinese curse
“Boy, now you are on your own!”
‘Blazing saddles’
“Smart I like, smart aleck I don’t.”
‘Rough deal’
King Stanislaw August to Mme Geoffrin soon after election
“How! These are our friends, our allies and they will prevent us from getting out of our stagnation!”
King Stanislaw August to Pepnin, slightly later
“Let all your dreams come true.”
Chinese curse
“Boy, now you are on your own!”
‘Blazing saddles’
“Smart I like, smart aleck I don’t.”
‘Rough deal’
Immediately after Stanislaw’s election, Catherine wrote to Panin: “I congratulate you on the king we made. This case most multiplies my power of attorney to you, I see how unmistakable all the measures you took were.” The “achievement” was indeed great because not everybody manages to make to big blunders by a single action. The first, blunder was that for a while Catherine was considering as her greatest asset in the foreign affairs [1] and the second was Poniatowski’s election, which she wanted so much. The only excuse on both accounts was her total inexperience in the foreign affairs. Well, and an urge to look good in the eyes of the “enlightened society”: the greedy French “philosophers” and, in general, a crowd of the fashionable salons in Paris.
At this point one of the main figures in that crowd was Madame [3] Marie Thérèse Rodet Geoffrin whom King Stanislaw August was addressing as his “maman” and with whom Catherine was in the letters exchange for no practical reason. The election generated exchange of a gushing correspondence.
Poniatowski to Mme. Geoffrin:
“The calm and quiet in this huge gathering was so great that all the noble ladies of the kingdom were present on the field of election without the slightest inconvenience, and I had the pleasure of being proclaimed both by all the men and all the women of my people who were present at the election.”
Mme. Geoffrin to Poniatowski:
“The future passes before my eyes, as in epic poems, I see Poland reborn from its ashes, I see it in radiant brilliance, like the new Jerusalem! Oh my dear son, my adored king! With what delight I will see you as a subject of surprise for the whole of Europe!”
Catherine to Mme. Geoffrin (the text is really amazing in her pretending to be a complete idiot):
“I congratulate you on the rise of your son; I do not know how he became king, but, of course, it was the will of providence, and most of all it is necessary to congratulate his kingdom on it; the Poles did not have a person who would make them happier in a human way; they say that your son behaves perfectly, and I am very happy about it; to guide him on the true path in case of need, I give your motherly tenderness.”
Well, putting aside pretense of a complete ignorance, in this occasion Catherine did prove to be an idiot because immediately after his election King Stanislaw August started separating his interests from those of Catherine looking for a friendship of the court most hostile to Russia, the French court. In the same letter to Geoffrin in which he described his election he wrote: “I really need your advice on the case I wish for more and, of course, more than you think: this is the friendship of the French king. If only in France they want to be on good terms with me, I promise you that I will gladly meet and make half the way.”
In the domestic policies it was even worse because his ideas of the reforms were in a direct contradiction with the Russian interests and the main Russian interest was producing a national hysteria in the PLC. Small surprise that soon enough Catherine started having serious doubts about the wisdom of her … oops …. “providence” will and began changing her course accordingly [4] and the new king started complaining to his “maman” about Catherine having brain but no heart.
Of course, the “heart” issue was quite tangible. To fulfill the pre-election promises Russia (through Repnin) was paying in «червонцы»[5]:
- 3,000 monthly to Voywevoda of Ruthenia
- 300 monthly to Oginski’s troops
- 1,200 monthly to Stanislaw until the end of coronation sejm.
- 17,000 to Primate (part of the promised 80,000 rubles)
- 4,000 to Primate’s chancellor
The first trial balloon was proposal of a new Russian-Polish treaty by which Russia would guarantee the present state of the Republic. With a good reason the Poles objected that under the right of the guarantee Russia will interfere in all their domestic affairs.
On a bright side, the sejm confirmed treaty of 1868 regarding commission to start negotiations regarding the border. Of course, in the PLC this did not mean any immediate action but now the Russian side had a legitimate reason to push the subject.
However, the most pressing issue was dissidents question. Due to the numerous complaints from Belorussian clergy about oppression by the Catholics, the Synod presented Catherine a petition in which she was asked to protect interests of the Orthodox Church on the PLC territories. Catherine sent to Repnin instruction to try to deal with the problem and request restoration of the Orthodox Church properties and guarantees of a personal security of its clergy. Another important issue was definition of the precise borders between two states.
Repnin, who understood situation on a ground honestly answered: “I consider it impossible to bring them (dissidents) to full equality with Catholics without violence.” Panin answered with a long-winded meaningless message remarkable both by the convoluted page-long sentences and the idiotic advices to talk with King and magnates about the great services Catherine already done to the Republic, a honor of the Republic, equality of its citizens, etc. Only at the very end and in a very convoluted way mentioned the Russian troops still present present on the PLC territory but without saying anything about their active deployment.
All these issues Stanislaw August and “Familia” considered as rather unwelcome distraction from their reforms program and main of these reforms was abolition of liberum veto and its replacement by a majority vote. But for this agreement of the foreign courts, and first of all Russian, was required and Stanislav-August decided to assure Catherine that the transformation is necessary for the success of the dissident case “…To succeed in this matter, as everywhere else, it takes more order at the Sejm, and this cannot be achieved without correcting our Sejmiks. Your Majesty's own interest is involved here.” But this did not work out and Stanislaw got an answer that time of the reforms did not come, yet, and he had to backpedal. He honestly tried to bring up the dissident issue and response was “fantastic outcry”: “The bitterness in the Senate went to the point that they wanted to sacrifice the primate himself, as he dared to make an easy mention of this case.” Repnin also reported: “I have little hope and the enthusiasm is so great that neither reasons nor fear are making any impact. ”
The Prussian and Austrian courts also were not the idle watchers. Russia and Prussia finally started a treaty that was, formally, about the mutual defense but also contained the “secret” articles about using all measures necessary to prevent any constitutional reforms in the PLC. “Secret” are in quotes because contents of these articles had been disclosed to Britain and Austria. Anyway, in Vienna the main concern was not the Russian-Prussian Treaty but a fact that so far Russia was, contrary to the article of that treaty was seemingly taking easy the reforming activities of Warsaw. The same concern was expressed by Prussia: truly, the Republic was surrounded by the sincere friends. 😉
Frederick to Catherine:
“Many of the Polish nobles want to destroy the liberum veto and replace it with a majority of votes. This intention is very important for all of Poland's neighbors. I agree that we have nothing to worry about under King Stanislav, but after him? If Your Majesty agrees to this change, you can repent and Poland can become a state dangerous to its neighbor.”
Panin kept blabbing generalities along the lines that it would be cruel not to let the Poles to get out of their barbaric state but Frederick’s letter made a deep impression upon Catherine and she rejected Panin’s request to support PLC reforms. As was reported by the Prussian ambassador, Solms, “Panin frowned, but hid his annoyance: he wanted to gain fame as a restorer of Poland.”
Actually, the court of Vienna, due to a much greater experience of its diplomats, had a better grasp on the situation and, as soon as it became clear that only a Piast would be permitted for the election, advocated candidacy of the Hetman Branicki as a less troublesome figure than Poniatowski and supporting him “Familia”. When Branicki and Radziwill were forced to flee Poland, the court of Vienna tried to advocate in their favor.
In the case of Branicki, there was no need for any advocacy: he and Stanislaw were brothers-in-law and, as Stanislaw put it, “Branicki was a rich man and knew how to use his wealth in such a way as to be a real Polish lord, whose house at that time was a brilliant model of splendor and taste". Soon enough he returned to his palace in Byalostok where he was regularly visited by the King Stanislaw-August who during the visits stayed in the special royal chambers.
Radziwill, OTOH, had to spend 2 years abroad before he was allowed to return to his Nesvizh castle/palace.
In a meantime, to protect the warehouses left from the 7YW, Russia maintained on the PLC territory nine infantry, two carabinier regiments, a hussar squadron, one grenadier, two cuirassier regiments, and 200 Don Cossacks. To all noises coming from the PLC and outside “concerned parties” a standard answer was that Russian troops are not entering the Polish territory, they are remaining in it. In an absence of any realistic counter-arguments, this one had been accepted by everybody.
________
[1] In OTL he proved to be a really great ass.
[2] Definition: “The French Salon was a gathering of selected people to learn from an expert about a subject (historian, philosopher, composer), discuss ideas and events of the time, and connect with people in society.” Something like the Wild West saloon but without fistfights and with less competent “experts”: to discuss the horses and cows you need a solid knowledge of a subject but for discussing “philosophy” (IMO, a fundamental difference between German and French philosophies is that while German is talking about everything in a way, which impossible to understand, the French is using easy to understand language talking about nothing) you just need a freely wagging tongue. I’d abstain from the comments on what one needs to discuss a history (we are all in the same boat). 😂😂
[3] In this case, indication of a marital status, not a profession.
[4] In OTL she did not until her nose was pushed into a pile of a manure which she helped to produce.
[5] gold coin worth of 2.2 - 2.3 rubles.
[6] In OTL Catherine, who was complaining about an empty treasury, sent him 100,000 червонцы as a gift.
Last edited:
13a. OTL intermission
13a. OTL intermission
By whatever reason “AI” handling my ipad three times screwed up the text by committing on its own initiative and removing a piece related to Radziwill and his castle. I’m trying it as a separate “subchater”. This is all OTL but interesting one.
In June 1764, after Radziwill and Branicki had been defeated, the Russian troops occupied Radziwill’s Slutsk, and then under the command of M. Bzhostovsky (Lithuanian official - it was all for saving the PLC, in case you forgot) approached Nesvizh and began to demand the surrender of the guns. By this time, the Radziwill militia had already been defeated by Russian troops near Slonim on June 26, 1764, and the city had nowhere to wait for support. Nesvizh, having been left without a defender, nevertheless, did not immediately surrender to the Russian troops. At first, Russian parliamentarians were not even allowed into the city gates. Then Bzhostovsky gave the order to shell the castle, which he did until the evening from the New Place. Only after that the gates of the castle were opened, but the Radziwiłł garrison was left in the castle. The production of Russian troops was 30 large, 34 small guns on lafts, 13 barrels of gunpowder, 1000 cannonballs and 200 buckshot shells. Officers of the Nesvizh garrison were sworn in, and soldiers and non-commissioned officers from peasants were disbanded and sent home.
In 1767-1768, when Karol Stanisław Radziwill Pane Kohanku returned to Nesvizh for a short period of time, he tried to revive the cadet corps founded by his father in his possessions. This corps of artillery and engineering was commanded by the Saxon F. K Frelih. The Castellans of Nesvizh Castle received an order to allocate premises for the director and officers on the top floor of a stone building, and in total there were 48 cadets in the school. There were no general education subjects in her course, since the Corps accepted only young men "already trained in schools", and the corps was understood as a special school to prepare for the military profession. Therefore, they studied only German and French, mathematics, logic, artillery, architecture, drawing. By order of Karol Stanislav, a separate project was to be drawn up for the premises of the corps, but this was never carried out. The corps existed until 1776, from its walls mainly good officers who valiantly served in the artillery and infantry regiments of the GDL.
Karol Stanisław Radziwill was again forced to leave the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in July 1769, at which time the Russian possession of Nesvizh came, which lasted from 1768 to 1775 and was accompanied by the removal of the property of the Radziwills, the destruction of the castle and the city. In 1772, General Chernyshev confiscated and took the princely library with 20,000 books from Nesvizh Castle to St. Petersburg. It remained forever in the fund of the library of the Academy of Sciences, first of the Russian Empire, and then of the USSR.
In 1780, Radziwill Pane Kohanku retired from the political struggle and returned to Nesvizh. Despite the fact that the castle remained without a master for a long time, there were 16 guns on the ramparts of the nesvizh fortress back in 1779, as well as a large number of them were in the arsenal, some had names and were decorated with the coats of arms of Zholkevsky and Sobiesky. As combat, they were no longer valuable and were used exclusively as ceremonial and salute tools. The loss of the castle was evidenced by the compiled inventory: for example, out of 984 paintings that were in the castle in 1770, about 500 remained.
Karol Stanislav begins work on the revival of the castle with all his inherent fervor and passion. The luxury that Prince Karol Stanisław Radziwill to Pane Kochanka tried to revive in the family nest was especially well remembered by contemporaries during a reception organized by Karol Stanisław in September 1784 for King Stanislav August Poniatowski, who visited the Nesvizh Castle on his way to Grodno. Radziwill Pane Kohanku, organizing a luxurious reception, aimed to belittle the greatness of the king. During his visit to the castle, Stanislav August was shown the treasury of nesvizh, which occupied three large halls, stuffed with all sorts of things - from a significant number of paintings, tapestries - even to twelve wooden horses, decorated with saddles and a harness of unprecedented beauty. The wealth of the owner was represented by precious stones, hats, cufflinks, rings, watches, collars, rings. In addition - Marshal's wands, hetman's clubs, buzdygans, valuable quivers and shields, sabers in gold scabbards, gold and gilded weapons, swords sprinkled with holy water, sewing, lace, finally Egyptian mummies, weapons of wild Indians - all this was enough to pleasantly and usefully take several hours of time. The King of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth looked "poor" in comparison with Karol Radziwill.
.
By whatever reason “AI” handling my ipad three times screwed up the text by committing on its own initiative and removing a piece related to Radziwill and his castle. I’m trying it as a separate “subchater”. This is all OTL but interesting one.
In June 1764, after Radziwill and Branicki had been defeated, the Russian troops occupied Radziwill’s Slutsk, and then under the command of M. Bzhostovsky (Lithuanian official - it was all for saving the PLC, in case you forgot) approached Nesvizh and began to demand the surrender of the guns. By this time, the Radziwill militia had already been defeated by Russian troops near Slonim on June 26, 1764, and the city had nowhere to wait for support. Nesvizh, having been left without a defender, nevertheless, did not immediately surrender to the Russian troops. At first, Russian parliamentarians were not even allowed into the city gates. Then Bzhostovsky gave the order to shell the castle, which he did until the evening from the New Place. Only after that the gates of the castle were opened, but the Radziwiłł garrison was left in the castle. The production of Russian troops was 30 large, 34 small guns on lafts, 13 barrels of gunpowder, 1000 cannonballs and 200 buckshot shells. Officers of the Nesvizh garrison were sworn in, and soldiers and non-commissioned officers from peasants were disbanded and sent home.
In 1767-1768, when Karol Stanisław Radziwill Pane Kohanku returned to Nesvizh for a short period of time, he tried to revive the cadet corps founded by his father in his possessions. This corps of artillery and engineering was commanded by the Saxon F. K Frelih. The Castellans of Nesvizh Castle received an order to allocate premises for the director and officers on the top floor of a stone building, and in total there were 48 cadets in the school. There were no general education subjects in her course, since the Corps accepted only young men "already trained in schools", and the corps was understood as a special school to prepare for the military profession. Therefore, they studied only German and French, mathematics, logic, artillery, architecture, drawing. By order of Karol Stanislav, a separate project was to be drawn up for the premises of the corps, but this was never carried out. The corps existed until 1776, from its walls mainly good officers who valiantly served in the artillery and infantry regiments of the GDL.
Karol Stanisław Radziwill was again forced to leave the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in July 1769, at which time the Russian possession of Nesvizh came, which lasted from 1768 to 1775 and was accompanied by the removal of the property of the Radziwills, the destruction of the castle and the city. In 1772, General Chernyshev confiscated and took the princely library with 20,000 books from Nesvizh Castle to St. Petersburg. It remained forever in the fund of the library of the Academy of Sciences, first of the Russian Empire, and then of the USSR.
In 1780, Radziwill Pane Kohanku retired from the political struggle and returned to Nesvizh. Despite the fact that the castle remained without a master for a long time, there were 16 guns on the ramparts of the nesvizh fortress back in 1779, as well as a large number of them were in the arsenal, some had names and were decorated with the coats of arms of Zholkevsky and Sobiesky. As combat, they were no longer valuable and were used exclusively as ceremonial and salute tools. The loss of the castle was evidenced by the compiled inventory: for example, out of 984 paintings that were in the castle in 1770, about 500 remained.
Karol Stanislav begins work on the revival of the castle with all his inherent fervor and passion. The luxury that Prince Karol Stanisław Radziwill to Pane Kochanka tried to revive in the family nest was especially well remembered by contemporaries during a reception organized by Karol Stanisław in September 1784 for King Stanislav August Poniatowski, who visited the Nesvizh Castle on his way to Grodno. Radziwill Pane Kohanku, organizing a luxurious reception, aimed to belittle the greatness of the king. During his visit to the castle, Stanislav August was shown the treasury of nesvizh, which occupied three large halls, stuffed with all sorts of things - from a significant number of paintings, tapestries - even to twelve wooden horses, decorated with saddles and a harness of unprecedented beauty. The wealth of the owner was represented by precious stones, hats, cufflinks, rings, watches, collars, rings. In addition - Marshal's wands, hetman's clubs, buzdygans, valuable quivers and shields, sabers in gold scabbards, gold and gilded weapons, swords sprinkled with holy water, sewing, lace, finally Egyptian mummies, weapons of wild Indians - all this was enough to pleasantly and usefully take several hours of time. The King of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth looked "poor" in comparison with Karol Radziwill.
.
Thanks. Some other pieces of text also had been lost but I’ll incorporate them in the future chapters,
14. Diplomatic games
14. Diplomatic games
International gossip
Elections in Poland produced quite a stir and gave ground to some wild speculations based upon the well-known earlier relations between Catherine and Stanislav. All of them, in a remarkable absence of any supporting facts, involved the marriage.
The least harmless one was a rumor that Catherine is planning to marry Stanislav, move to Poland and pass rule of Russia to Paul. This one was too fantastic to believe. But the more seemingly serious one was about of a marriage in which she remains on the throne of Russia helping Stanislaw to reform Poland by strengthening the royal power and then uses the union as a replacement of the Russian-Austrian alliance against the Ottomans. The second one was spreading throughout Europe (or at least throughout the interested courts) producing a wave of the negative reactions everywhere including both Russia and Poland.
In Russia and idea of Catherine’s marriage to the Catholic king of Poland was considered monstrous, both religiously and politically, but these rumors were killed with a relative ease with Catherine expressing a shock to the very idea that she may even contemplate such a marriage and mocking those with the over-developed imgination.
In Poland the idea was so horrifying that the Sejm issued a decision by which Stanislaw may marry only a Polish woman. To which Stanislaw declared that he is not planning to marry at all.
To calm down the French public opinion worried by a potential Russian-Polish union Stanislaw had to wrote a letter to his “maman” in Paris denying any intention to marry anybody and asking to spread this piece of news.
In Constantinople, where the rumor was, with a high probability, spread by the Prussian ambassador, it was taken very seriously and it took an intensive diplomatic exchange (and some tangible “arguments”) between the Porta and Russian ambassador to reassure the Ottomans that Catherine can’t even think about such a “sacrilegious” marriage.
Surprisingly or perhaps not, most noise had been coming from the Khan who was advocating the military measures more or less as a matter of principle. Fortunately, the Russian diplomatic mission was recently established in Bakhchysarai and when Khan started demanding a gift of a hunting falcon he was explained that the presents can be given only for a good behavior. After weighting the priorities, the Khan shut up.
But, marriage or not, there was a serious component which did require the separate explanations, the reforms in Poland. None of the rulers involved, including Catherine, wanted to have strong PLC. However, Catherine was still under Panin’s influence and Panin was a person much more concerned with his reputation and implementation of his ideas than with the practical interests of the Russian Empire. And his idea was to “restore Poland” and to be acclaimed as great statesman by the Enlightenment crowd. Catherine, as far as he was concerned, had no experience and did not know what is good for her. And, of course, the best thing for her and Russian Empire was to spread Enlightenment both inside and outside of its borders. So he kept sending to the Russian ambassador in the PLC instructions to support King Stanislaw in his reform efforts and keep pushing through the dissidents issue.
These widely advertised activities did not produce any serious practical results but raised quite a few questions because none of the neighbors wanted to see a strong PLC. Catherine finally got wind of the potential trouble and the ambassadors got the instructions to assure the host governments that the reforms are just the minor improvements in the financial and administrative apparatus and that the liberum veto, which Russia is 100% supporting, is a guarantee of the preservation of a general status quo.
In the PLC Stanislaw already was told that the time for changes did not come, yet. Which left the dissidents issue. Panin kept recommending to stay in the course but Catherine decided that she’ll follow Frederick’s example: request for the equal rights had been made, the Polish “nation” did reject it in the most clear and hysterical way and at least for a while she may wash her hands; after all, even if the Sejm would be forced to guarantee the Orthodox equal rights, the nobility will not honor this decision and Russia can’t keep forever enough troops in the PLC to protect all its Orthodox population. [1] Repnin, who was actually arguing against pushing the dissident issue, got instructions not to push it with any seriousness. Panin was clearly on a wrong side of an issue but in Catherine’s entourage he was still a person with the greatest experience in the foreign affairs and Catherine decided to keep him until suitable replacement is found but do not give him a free hand in his activities.
Sweden in the midst of the Age of Liberty
Unrelated to this rumor but in a direct connection to the Polish affairs, king Louis XV and his ministers came to a conclusion that, at least for a while, it does not make sense to waste money and efforts on Poland and instead started reorienting its effort toward Sweden where it was, so far, supporting the anti-royal party. Now, there should be a 180 degrees turn. Choisel's instructions to Breteil said: "France was misled by circumstances, too favored by the weakening of royal power in Sweden, from which a metaphysical, impossible rule arose. They wasted money on weak parties, and Sweden became weaker and insignificant. Therefore, it is must to give the king more power."
In his communications with the Russian ambassador in Sweden, Osterman, Panin was, as usually, long-winded and not helpful because he was much more driven by his ideas than facts on the ground. The ambassador was instructed to tell the Russian sympathizers that the French are unreliable and the Queen should not trust them. Ambassador responded that the Queen does not have options because influence of the French party is greatly strengthened: the French ambassador promises a million livres for the future Sejm, and if the Sejm is not extraordinary, postponed until the usual period, the French court will send another three million livres. OTOH, neither Russia nor Britain did not, so far, explained to what their help would amount. To which Panin answered that this is all nonsense and that Osterman should keep maintaining the friendly relations with the “good patriots” without any specific obligations and to Catherine he recommended to do nothing in Sweden until there is a complete clarity with the Polish affairs.
While France was interested in reestablishing absolutism in Sweden (with the pro-French court members as a power behind the throne), Russia, Britain and Prussia were interested in reestablishing of a constitutional monarchy as defined by the Constitution of 1720 with a proper balance between the three powers and liquidation of the disorder caused by the existing “false interpretation of the forms of a government”, specifically the acts published by the sejm of 1756 (after a failed coup led by Queen Louisa Ulrika with the intention to restore the absolute monarchy) which among other things contained the following: “State officials grant themselves the right to interpret and correct the established form of government at the General Sejm, if it is no longer necessary.” This would have to be changed to the statement that the state officials may present proposals to the sejm, which must be published and only after its approval by the next sejm becomes a law.
As in 1756, the Queen was a main mover on the Swedish side with France on one side and Russia with Britain on another trying to get her on their sides while she was trying to maneuver between the two sides and preferably get funds from both while not exposing herself too much because after 1756 she and her husband had been threatened with an expulsion if they try anything of the kind again.
The care about the Swedish constitution demonstrated by Britain and Russia was, of course, very touchy but the last part of a last item in a very long list of the detailed “tactical” instructions sent by Catherine to Osterman contained “strategic” goal of the whole exercise: take care that the Swedish government would not enter into any international agreements which could change Sweden’s neutral status in the case of a war.
Britain. On that platform [2] the British and Russian governments agreed to work together. The Brits were ready to commit 40,000 pounds and Osterman received 50,000 rubles for support of the Swedish “patriots”. However, they refused to “compensate” part of the Russian expenses on the Polish elections or to make any similar commitment regarding potential contribution in the case of the Russian-Ottoman war even if the Russian side claimed that these two items are the main part of a military treaty and that Russia is willing to make a similar commitment in the case of he Bitish war with Spain or France. Panin, rather optimistically, assumed that the Brits will not keep bargaining so hard when they will be informed of the new alliance between the Bourbon Houses to which Austria will join. With a complete absence of understanding, Panin kept calling the British objections regarding financial side of the Russian proposal as “merchant excuses” writing that the British government does not have any need to inform the Parliament about expenses until the crisis comes and when this happens “Then for 500,000 rubles the nation will not rebel against the government. All this is only about how shopkeepers can bargain, as long as there is time, and how much it is possible to bargain.”
Anyway, cooperation in Sweden was not a step toward creation of the Panin’s system because two of the intended participants did not have any intention to be the parts of it:
Far East. The vastness of Russia forced the government at the same time to negotiate an alliance with the extreme state in western Europe and take precautions regarding the Chinese borders. Lieutenant General Springer reported in July from the Ust-Kamenogorsk fortress that a lot of Chinese troops were on the borders. The military “conference” (Vilboa, Peter Panin, Chernyshev, Count Ernst Minich, kn. Alexander Golitsyn, Weimarn and Olsufiev) proposed the following measures: 1) provide instructions to the Siberian governors and other official on improving situation in the region; 2) to decree the rules on Chinese trade and customs affairs; 3) to make new orders to protect the borders so that they are not subjected to sudden attacks; 4) to start talks with the Chinese about resolving the existing situation while fortifying the border.
In practical terms this mean splitting Siberian gubernia into two, Tobolsk and Irkutsk, starting attempts to settle more people in the southern regions along the border, modify the rules of Kjakhta trade, to keep in Siberia 11 regiments, send there field artillery, add more officers of a general rank and to keep the regiments together, not spreading them along the border.
Note: Kjakhta was an agreed upon trading point between Qing and Russian Empires with a Chinese settlement directly across the border. At that point the main Russian merchandise were furs in exchange for the Chinese silk, porcelain, tea, rhubarb. Chinese tried to move this point to Urga (Mongolia) to give their merchants a better bargaining position but this did not work out. The main Russian concern was to minimize losses of the state revenue by tightening control over the illegal trade outside Kjakhta.
___________
[1] In OTL she stuck with the idea producing a great alienation of the Poles with the resulting “Repnin Sejm”, Bar Confederacy and Ottoman War to which Russia was not fully prepared. Panin remained a top figure in the foreign politics causing more than one terrible decision.
[2] It was already mentioned that the French proposal included a lease of few Swedish warships but, of course, support of the other countries’ constitutions always was on the top of the list of both British and Russian governments. 😉
“Those who guard their tongues keep themselves from calamity”
Proverbs 21:23
“A fool’s mouth is his undoing, and his lips are a snare to his soul. The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man’s inmost parts” Proverbs 18:7-8
“Don't believe the rumors until you repeat it yourself.”
Gennady Malkin
“People will believe anything if you tell them it's gossip.”
A. Kumor
“Don't repeat gossip like a parrot. Add something from yourself.”
Wieslaw Brudziński
“Rumors being spread that I'm interested in the moral side of politics. God forbid! Am I a mystic?”
S. J. Letz
Proverbs 21:23
“A fool’s mouth is his undoing, and his lips are a snare to his soul. The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man’s inmost parts” Proverbs 18:7-8
“Don't believe the rumors until you repeat it yourself.”
Gennady Malkin
“People will believe anything if you tell them it's gossip.”
A. Kumor
“Don't repeat gossip like a parrot. Add something from yourself.”
Wieslaw Brudziński
“Rumors being spread that I'm interested in the moral side of politics. God forbid! Am I a mystic?”
S. J. Letz
International gossip
Elections in Poland produced quite a stir and gave ground to some wild speculations based upon the well-known earlier relations between Catherine and Stanislav. All of them, in a remarkable absence of any supporting facts, involved the marriage.
The least harmless one was a rumor that Catherine is planning to marry Stanislav, move to Poland and pass rule of Russia to Paul. This one was too fantastic to believe. But the more seemingly serious one was about of a marriage in which she remains on the throne of Russia helping Stanislaw to reform Poland by strengthening the royal power and then uses the union as a replacement of the Russian-Austrian alliance against the Ottomans. The second one was spreading throughout Europe (or at least throughout the interested courts) producing a wave of the negative reactions everywhere including both Russia and Poland.
In Russia and idea of Catherine’s marriage to the Catholic king of Poland was considered monstrous, both religiously and politically, but these rumors were killed with a relative ease with Catherine expressing a shock to the very idea that she may even contemplate such a marriage and mocking those with the over-developed imgination.
In Poland the idea was so horrifying that the Sejm issued a decision by which Stanislaw may marry only a Polish woman. To which Stanislaw declared that he is not planning to marry at all.
To calm down the French public opinion worried by a potential Russian-Polish union Stanislaw had to wrote a letter to his “maman” in Paris denying any intention to marry anybody and asking to spread this piece of news.
In Constantinople, where the rumor was, with a high probability, spread by the Prussian ambassador, it was taken very seriously and it took an intensive diplomatic exchange (and some tangible “arguments”) between the Porta and Russian ambassador to reassure the Ottomans that Catherine can’t even think about such a “sacrilegious” marriage.
Surprisingly or perhaps not, most noise had been coming from the Khan who was advocating the military measures more or less as a matter of principle. Fortunately, the Russian diplomatic mission was recently established in Bakhchysarai and when Khan started demanding a gift of a hunting falcon he was explained that the presents can be given only for a good behavior. After weighting the priorities, the Khan shut up.
But, marriage or not, there was a serious component which did require the separate explanations, the reforms in Poland. None of the rulers involved, including Catherine, wanted to have strong PLC. However, Catherine was still under Panin’s influence and Panin was a person much more concerned with his reputation and implementation of his ideas than with the practical interests of the Russian Empire. And his idea was to “restore Poland” and to be acclaimed as great statesman by the Enlightenment crowd. Catherine, as far as he was concerned, had no experience and did not know what is good for her. And, of course, the best thing for her and Russian Empire was to spread Enlightenment both inside and outside of its borders. So he kept sending to the Russian ambassador in the PLC instructions to support King Stanislaw in his reform efforts and keep pushing through the dissidents issue.
These widely advertised activities did not produce any serious practical results but raised quite a few questions because none of the neighbors wanted to see a strong PLC. Catherine finally got wind of the potential trouble and the ambassadors got the instructions to assure the host governments that the reforms are just the minor improvements in the financial and administrative apparatus and that the liberum veto, which Russia is 100% supporting, is a guarantee of the preservation of a general status quo.
In the PLC Stanislaw already was told that the time for changes did not come, yet. Which left the dissidents issue. Panin kept recommending to stay in the course but Catherine decided that she’ll follow Frederick’s example: request for the equal rights had been made, the Polish “nation” did reject it in the most clear and hysterical way and at least for a while she may wash her hands; after all, even if the Sejm would be forced to guarantee the Orthodox equal rights, the nobility will not honor this decision and Russia can’t keep forever enough troops in the PLC to protect all its Orthodox population. [1] Repnin, who was actually arguing against pushing the dissident issue, got instructions not to push it with any seriousness. Panin was clearly on a wrong side of an issue but in Catherine’s entourage he was still a person with the greatest experience in the foreign affairs and Catherine decided to keep him until suitable replacement is found but do not give him a free hand in his activities.
Sweden in the midst of the Age of Liberty
Unrelated to this rumor but in a direct connection to the Polish affairs, king Louis XV and his ministers came to a conclusion that, at least for a while, it does not make sense to waste money and efforts on Poland and instead started reorienting its effort toward Sweden where it was, so far, supporting the anti-royal party. Now, there should be a 180 degrees turn. Choisel's instructions to Breteil said: "France was misled by circumstances, too favored by the weakening of royal power in Sweden, from which a metaphysical, impossible rule arose. They wasted money on weak parties, and Sweden became weaker and insignificant. Therefore, it is must to give the king more power."
In his communications with the Russian ambassador in Sweden, Osterman, Panin was, as usually, long-winded and not helpful because he was much more driven by his ideas than facts on the ground. The ambassador was instructed to tell the Russian sympathizers that the French are unreliable and the Queen should not trust them. Ambassador responded that the Queen does not have options because influence of the French party is greatly strengthened: the French ambassador promises a million livres for the future Sejm, and if the Sejm is not extraordinary, postponed until the usual period, the French court will send another three million livres. OTOH, neither Russia nor Britain did not, so far, explained to what their help would amount. To which Panin answered that this is all nonsense and that Osterman should keep maintaining the friendly relations with the “good patriots” without any specific obligations and to Catherine he recommended to do nothing in Sweden until there is a complete clarity with the Polish affairs.
While France was interested in reestablishing absolutism in Sweden (with the pro-French court members as a power behind the throne), Russia, Britain and Prussia were interested in reestablishing of a constitutional monarchy as defined by the Constitution of 1720 with a proper balance between the three powers and liquidation of the disorder caused by the existing “false interpretation of the forms of a government”, specifically the acts published by the sejm of 1756 (after a failed coup led by Queen Louisa Ulrika with the intention to restore the absolute monarchy) which among other things contained the following: “State officials grant themselves the right to interpret and correct the established form of government at the General Sejm, if it is no longer necessary.” This would have to be changed to the statement that the state officials may present proposals to the sejm, which must be published and only after its approval by the next sejm becomes a law.
As in 1756, the Queen was a main mover on the Swedish side with France on one side and Russia with Britain on another trying to get her on their sides while she was trying to maneuver between the two sides and preferably get funds from both while not exposing herself too much because after 1756 she and her husband had been threatened with an expulsion if they try anything of the kind again.
The care about the Swedish constitution demonstrated by Britain and Russia was, of course, very touchy but the last part of a last item in a very long list of the detailed “tactical” instructions sent by Catherine to Osterman contained “strategic” goal of the whole exercise: take care that the Swedish government would not enter into any international agreements which could change Sweden’s neutral status in the case of a war.
Britain. On that platform [2] the British and Russian governments agreed to work together. The Brits were ready to commit 40,000 pounds and Osterman received 50,000 rubles for support of the Swedish “patriots”. However, they refused to “compensate” part of the Russian expenses on the Polish elections or to make any similar commitment regarding potential contribution in the case of the Russian-Ottoman war even if the Russian side claimed that these two items are the main part of a military treaty and that Russia is willing to make a similar commitment in the case of he Bitish war with Spain or France. Panin, rather optimistically, assumed that the Brits will not keep bargaining so hard when they will be informed of the new alliance between the Bourbon Houses to which Austria will join. With a complete absence of understanding, Panin kept calling the British objections regarding financial side of the Russian proposal as “merchant excuses” writing that the British government does not have any need to inform the Parliament about expenses until the crisis comes and when this happens “Then for 500,000 rubles the nation will not rebel against the government. All this is only about how shopkeepers can bargain, as long as there is time, and how much it is possible to bargain.”
Anyway, cooperation in Sweden was not a step toward creation of the Panin’s system because two of the intended participants did not have any intention to be the parts of it:
- Frederick wanted just a military alliance with Russia as a protection against Franco-Austrian alliance, got it thanks to the Polish business and did not want any additional obligations.
- Britain was even less interested in any system that would not provide trade advantages while involving obligations and expenses on the subjects of no national interests. As far as the bilateral treaties were involved, both sides were interested in trade but the Russian side wanted a package of the military and commercial treaties while Britain would not agree to help Russia against the Ottomans due to the existing trade interests and is not going to subsidize Russian activities in Poland because Parliament is not going to approve these expenses.
Far East. The vastness of Russia forced the government at the same time to negotiate an alliance with the extreme state in western Europe and take precautions regarding the Chinese borders. Lieutenant General Springer reported in July from the Ust-Kamenogorsk fortress that a lot of Chinese troops were on the borders. The military “conference” (Vilboa, Peter Panin, Chernyshev, Count Ernst Minich, kn. Alexander Golitsyn, Weimarn and Olsufiev) proposed the following measures: 1) provide instructions to the Siberian governors and other official on improving situation in the region; 2) to decree the rules on Chinese trade and customs affairs; 3) to make new orders to protect the borders so that they are not subjected to sudden attacks; 4) to start talks with the Chinese about resolving the existing situation while fortifying the border.
In practical terms this mean splitting Siberian gubernia into two, Tobolsk and Irkutsk, starting attempts to settle more people in the southern regions along the border, modify the rules of Kjakhta trade, to keep in Siberia 11 regiments, send there field artillery, add more officers of a general rank and to keep the regiments together, not spreading them along the border.
Note: Kjakhta was an agreed upon trading point between Qing and Russian Empires with a Chinese settlement directly across the border. At that point the main Russian merchandise were furs in exchange for the Chinese silk, porcelain, tea, rhubarb. Chinese tried to move this point to Urga (Mongolia) to give their merchants a better bargaining position but this did not work out. The main Russian concern was to minimize losses of the state revenue by tightening control over the illegal trade outside Kjakhta.
___________
[1] In OTL she stuck with the idea producing a great alienation of the Poles with the resulting “Repnin Sejm”, Bar Confederacy and Ottoman War to which Russia was not fully prepared. Panin remained a top figure in the foreign politics causing more than one terrible decision.
[2] It was already mentioned that the French proposal included a lease of few Swedish warships but, of course, support of the other countries’ constitutions always was on the top of the list of both British and Russian governments. 😉
Since when were rumors ever stopped by absence of supporting facts?
Did @Viking25 write this
But so fun though!
It would have such "interesting" results
Typo in imagination
Also Catherine kinkshaming the shippers is hilarious
Agreed, but only if Bernadotte is the king
They weren’t. 😜Since when were rumors ever stopped by absence of supporting facts?
It's funny to think that there was even back then the equivalent of [current world leader]/[current world leader] AO3 fanfic.
There was no internet but the people were pretty much the same. 😉
The rumors were OTL but I took some liberty with the handling instead of fishing out all details from Soloviev’s Russian history.
if AO3 existed back then:
Tags
Catherine/Stanislav (12)
Catherine/Equines (134)
Catherine/Maria Theresa (20)
Catherine/Louis XV (9)
Catherine/Frederick (32)
Catherine/commoners (219)*
Catherine/Peter's ghost (6)
Catherine/Mustafa (11)
*=an especially notoriously low-quality category, riddled with people making OCs of themselves
"Who the heck wrote Catherine and Emperor Caligula?!"
"That was me, yeah"
"And you also made her his sister"
"Thats the man's taste, not mine!"